"RELIGION, RELIGIOUSNESS and FAITH" in Christ in Concrete.
In your view, which category applies to the characters in the book?
To avoid semantic confusion here and in class discussions we should agree on the meaning of these terms.
Here is my proposed interpretation:
RELIGION: what today is called "organized religion": the hierarchy, the buildings, the structure, the holy books, the authoritative interpretation of the holy books, the dogma(ta), the rituals, the collective prayers, the memorized instructions, the official theology, the doctrine, the "sins," the excommunication, plus the popular beliefs.
RELIGIOUSNESS: the general sense of belonging to an organized religion, but not completely, with deviations from the dogma(ta) and beliefs, but a strong sense of spirituality, a belief in life-after-death, in the existence of God.
FAITH: the strong belief that God exists and that s/he intervenes in human affairs, s/he can be moved by prayers and other rituals to perform miracles, to protect from evil and individual tragedies. In some cases, God acts through intermediaries, like angels, saints and prophets who can perform miracles.
POST YOUR COMMENTS:
- Which category applies to the characters? You can speak in general or refer to just some of them.
- Are the definitions clear enough to guide us through the discussion? (We don't want to get bogged down in endless semantic disputes. Rather, we need a basic consensus on the meaning of these terms so that we can make progress.)
- OPTIONAL: do discussions about religion, faith etc. make you uncomfortable? Yes? No? Indifferent? Tell us why.
I personally think that 'faith' is the most proper category that applies to the character in this story becasue as it is already mentioned on the top, faith is "a strong belief that the god exists," and Geremio looked for the god when he was dying. He said "oh jesu, are you there, why don't you come?" Judging from his saying, he thought that the god is alive person who can save his life. So I think faith is the best category that applies to the character.
ReplyDeleteI'm stuck on deciding whether or not it's religiousness or faith because the characters have aspects of both throughout the book. Having to choose I'd go with religiousness just because the faith category seems to lack the traditions associated with organized religion. It's definitely not religion because I don't feel like they abide by every rule, but they do still believe things like in not eating meat on good friday.
ReplyDeleteThe definitions feel clear enough and they're distinct enough, but i feel like in a lot of cases you can't have religion or religiousness without faith.
I know for certain Geremio is faith. Everyday he spoke about God and when he was dying he called out to him, wanting a miracle to happen.
ReplyDeleteFaith seems to be the leading category for the characters in the book. From Geremio speaking to God, to Annunziata and Paul both speaking to God and Geremio after Geremio's death. For Paul to become a bricklayer at the age of 12, he spoke to God and Geremio to help him get the job. and when he did, he thanked them every chance he got.
ReplyDeleteClearly, it is Religiousness which applies to the characters throughout the book. This is evident by the way in which God/Jesus/Mary are constantly called upon - either in prayer or in time of need - while not being constrained to the traditional/institutional means of doing so. Many/most of the characters are highly religious in terms of the way in which they have faith, yet there is little citation or evidence of structured religious practice or doctrine. Instead, the characters throughout the book have faith without regulation or institutionalized structure. Thus, they fall somewhere in between faith and religion: Religiousness!
ReplyDeleteI think the definitions of Religion, Religiousness, and Faith are quite accurate, but it appears to be a touch hazy when discussing the distinction between Faith and Religiousness. I would perhaps more explicitly call religiousness faith that has bee shaped by religion, without the institutionalization of it.
Discussions of religion and faith do not make me uncomfortable whatsoever. This is partially based upon three separate and independent variables (for me). The first is my understanding and belief that faith is felt, thus having different feelings - even if in direct contradiction to my own - cannot be "bad" as they are felt, not thought. Secondly, having has extensive exposure to different cultures and religions has only strengthened my own faith (ergo, I find the discussion of religion and faith to be quite rewarding). Lastly, the way I was introduced to God -as being the acme of a mountain to which every religion climbs - has greatly impacted my viewpoint in the matter of faith and religion.
While I see all three categories being prevalent in the book throughout, I would say that Faith is the one that I see most strongly. All of the characters seem to turn to God at some point in their own way, some loudly and in a public setting, others quietly asking God for guidance in this new world they have been thrust into. This book also represents faith specifically to certain characters, Paul for example I see as an angel/prophet who essentially saves his family when they think all is lost. In reading the book I see Paul the son of Geremio as an imbodiment of of his father, supporting his siblings and mother.
ReplyDeleteIf I had to chose one I would pick Religiousness. The fact that Paul mentions on page 216, "Papa is not coming back and we shall never meet again." I think this perfectly express how through out the book they had always looked toward the afterlife as a place of reward for their harsh mistreatment. Overall I do respect Paul when he Stated in the book, "Mama we must go on to a world of our own. WE need each other more than ever-" It shows how even Paul rejects the beliefs he still believes in people or at least Family.
ReplyDeleteAlso the moment in the book when they went to visit the pysci kinda shows belife of an after life. I would also say faith because Annunziata is always holding her crucifix, and repeatedly praying.
looking at all three categories i must say that the characters in this book were more with religiousness. because they always called upon god a lot through out the book .between pages 54-56 were Paul stuck because they didn't have any money or food . on page 54 were he went to the church to pray to have his father back o lord you have taken dear father away for your own need ... can you not send him back o lord ? we love him - we are hungry - we need him please please please dear Jesus . i think Paul was at a lost because they were struggling to survive and all he wanted was his father he knew that the lord would some how bring back to his family.
ReplyDeleteGeromino and Annunziata are the 2 characters in the book who belong in the Faith category. They both believe in the existence of God so much so that they not only talk about Him but also converse with Him even to their dying breaths. Annunziata's faith was also very apparent when Paul denounced his faith in front of her. It shattered her.
ReplyDeleteIn the book I find that religiousness is the most prominent of these three, but faith also shows up throughout the story. I find that Annunziata leans more towards religiousness, she prays often and yells out to god when she is upset. She believes in the after life and that Geremio had moved onto a better place. She doesn't go to church often, only when she needs to pray. Paul shows more signs of faith than any. After being out in the real world he has it really tough. He is barely even a man and he has the responsibility of the whole family on his shoulders. He prays for God to help him, to bring his father back from the after life, for the burden was too much for him. I found that the scene where Annunziata and Paul go to see the gypsy who is able to commune with spirits is a big representation of faith. The gypsy is and intermediary between the live and the dead. She performs a ritual to commune with Geremio. She embodies the belief that god can act through humans.
ReplyDeleteI think the characters in the book belong to faith and religiousness both. Geromino belongs to faith since until his last breath he was asking jesus to help him whether it was to help him live or end the pain,he was expecting miracle which will save him and free him from his pain towards the end of his life. On the other hand his kids belong to the religiousness because they pray to jesus for him to come back since they struggling in their life and this shows that they believe that jesus will bring him back to life.
ReplyDeleteGeromino and Annunziata are faithful they show compassion to other characters in the book. for example Annunziata was in the hospital with Luigi when he broke his right leg and found out it was infected after the cast was removed.RELIGIOUSNESS is another factor in this book when people get hurt or sick they always saw god help me speak to god.
ReplyDeleteThe general theme in relation to religion in "Christ in Concrete" is mostly 'faith'because for someone as bright as Paul to be faced with such hardship with the violent death of his father. Him along with the other characters display faith because they believe that they are in need of God's help.
ReplyDeleteI believe the proper interpretation would be 'religiousness'. In the book Annunziata took Paul to see a woman known as the Cripple. The Cripple claimed that she is able to speak to the dead and it was clear that both Annunziata and Paul believed her since they were both continuously crying throughout the reading. It has also been mentioned previously by many other characters that Geremio is watching over his family from up above and that God has a plan for everything. This all falls in with the belief of life after death and that there is definitely a God.
ReplyDeleteFaith might be the force behind the patience, resilience, and perseverance endured by the Italian family you present, it enables them to endure their hardship. Martyrdom has reinvented itself through Annunziata and other players in this community. Their contribution is not recognized, yet they immensely contribute to the economy, having a strong faith in a better life in future. They believe they do “live and suffer not in vain and our reward waits” (58). I believe so because this is the one thing that keeps them going, their love and commitment to family are the only reason they struggle to make ends meet. Their strong affiliation to Catholicism makes them endure it all for the sake of their future generations. They cannot live without an ideal of brotherhood, pain, and suffering. Now I know the price some people have to pay is very high. It cannot get any worse than this. But then life has to go on regardless of the pain and suffering of the immigrant community.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason i think that they believe in faith more than religion as the characters in the book they call out Jesus and pray to God, but they want to see miracles. They want to see Jesus helping them out with their problems but their prayers are reflected more as begging, with in some cases they are but they only want to solve their money problems.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying they are not religious cause if you think about religiousness and faith are overlapped.
Geromino belong in the faith category because he had faith that god what going to come through for him and his difficult times. Wish why when he was dying he said “oh Jesus, are you there, why don’t you come?’’ for him god is a person who was going to come and save him.
ReplyDeleteFor Geromino faith is trust, assurance and confidence in God. Living faith is shown by service and obedience to God. God will increase our faith if we fervently ask and draw close to Him.